INTERVIEW: Robert Diament & Russell Tovey's Talk Art podcast becomes book
Margate gallerist Robert Diament loves to talk about contemporary art, so much so that he and fellow enthusiast Russell Tovey have set about removing the fears of those looking for a way into the conversation, writes Marijke Hall
Image By Christine Ting
In 2012, I stood at Tracey Emin’s She Lay Down Deep Beneath the Sea exhibition at Turner Contemporary and I worried that I didn’t get it. I tilted my head to look at what, to my eye, were just scribbled blue images of a woman lying on her back.
My companion, on the other hand, was overcome with emotion. She got it.
Fast-forward almost a decade and it was this memory running through my mind as I prepared to speak to Margate gallerist Robert Diament. The feeling of being vastly unequipped and not worthy enough to be discussing art. The irony of the resulting conversation was not lost on me because he was due to speak about his new book Talk Art - Everything You Wanted to Know About Contemporary Art but Were Afraid to Ask. Yep, many of us have been there.
Robert has written it with actor, close mate and fellow art enthusiast Russell Tovey.
It comes off the back of their hugely popular Talk Art podcast, which has been an unprecedented success since it was launched on a bit of a whim back in 2018.
In it, they celebrate well-known artists and those yet to be discovered through a series of interviews and, in their honest and comic discussions, they open up and invite you into a world that can feel a little inaccessible and intimidating at times.
But Diament insists it doesn’t have to be and, actually, in their podcast, it’s not. It’s inviting, funny and far from pretentious.
“The subject of art can seem like this very worthy, intellectual pursuit, but actually there’s a lot of fun there and these artists are telling stories,” Diament says and I immediately relax.
“They want to connect with people, even if it’s the most serious of political issues.”
He also believes people in the UK probably like art much more than they realise.
“There’s often so much stuff in the media where they take the mickey out of contemporary artworks and undermine them, but I think the British public really love art and care about it.”
Diament, who is director of the Carl Freedman Gallery in Margate, and Tovey want to reassure people through their book that it’s OK not to know much about contemporary art.
But they also want to share just how amazing it is, to enjoy it and fall in love with a piece.
“You might feel like you don’t know anything about art, but if you go into a museum it’s OK to think you don’t like it all or don’t understand it,” Diament says.
“You might spend enough time there to find that one artwork that clicks with you and resonates on some level.
“From that, you might discover all these other artists because it’ll create all these estuaries and rivers off that one piece and it’s the most extraordinary, exciting adventure to go on.”
Diament is quick to point out that you also don’t need to remortgage your house to buy some.
“At the back of the book, we did a whole guide to try to explain to people how to collect art.
“You can go on eBay and buy posters and it will change your experience of living in your flat, or you can get postcards or tea towels.
“It’s wonderful to have pictures of things you love and it doesn’t need to be expensive.”
Diament says he and Tovey were unusual in that they both started collecting pieces at a young age, meeting at a dinner after an exhibition by their shared hero Tracey Emin 12 years ago.
“Neither of us came from super-wealthy families or anything, but we just had this weird drive to want to live with art,” he says.
“We immediately became really close because we shared this geeky kind of passion, which was quite an unusual thing when you’re mid-twenties, but both of us were obsessed with it.”
One thing led to another and the pair were invited to be interviewed on the podcast Thought Starters, but it went in a completely different direction.
“For the whole thing it was just me and Russell talking to each other, it was just so comic,” Diament laughs.
“When we heard it back, we sent it to our mums.
“To them I think it was quite an abstract concept that we were trying to fill up the walls of our houses with pictures.
“Sometimes it would be a squiggle and they’d be like ‘What is that, why is that art?’... our mums thought the interview was brilliant, that we were finishing each other’s sentences and we had this rapport.”
And so the podcast idea was born.
“I was quite insecure about it because I’m not a broadcaster. But I am quite gregarious and outgoing.
“In the first few episodes I’m definitely nervous. When we did our Pedro Pascal episode, we had to stop halfway through as I had a bit of a meltdown.
“I was like ‘I don’t know why I’m doing this, he’s a big Hollywood actor’. Even though he’s our mate, I was like ‘Why am I interviewing you?’, but they were so encouraging. Russell was really supportive the whole time.
“He is very funny and makes me belly-laugh and you hear that in the show. He doesn’t take being well known that seriously.”
A first full series of 12 episodes was snapped up by an eager listenership.
“I think people like it because it’s like eavesdropping into a conversation between friends, plus there might be someone very famous or an artist that you love or an artist you don’t know yet who you can discover.”
He admits with the book, which was released this month, they were nervous at first.
“We were like ‘We can’t do this, we’re going to have to prove that we know everything about the last 100 years and spend weeks in the library’.
“But we took the approach of ‘Let’s write about things right now’.”
Talk Art celebrates contemporary art and acts as a guidebook to the art world.
And its main aim? To be accessible.
It features interviews with Tracey Emin and Grayson Perry, as well as the likes of Sir Ian McKellen, Michael Stipe (R.E.M) and even Kent’s own Billy Childish, but also a range of artists you might not have heard of.
It also looks at different media such as ‘sound art’, ceramics as well as photography, with a beautiful collection of images, and of course the encouraging reassurance from the authors.
Image By Christine Ting
Diament says writing the book came naturally and spontaneously, replicating the feel of the podcast.
“It’s all quite unplanned and we want to keep it like that because if we try to be too worthy then we’ll lose the genuine authentic nature of it.
“There are other podcasts – I won’t say who – where you listen to them now and they’re parodies of themselves and it’s kind of become a bit affected by the fact they’ve become successful.
“Russell was already successful with his acting and he’s an unaffected person.
“He’ll often cancel going to a celebrity dinner and go and hang out with his family in Billericay instead.
“We’re not doing this to become celebrities, we’re doing this because we want more people to go to museums or galleries. It’s a really fun thing to do.”
The Carl Freedman Gallery, where he works, was opened in 2003 by Diament’s friend Carl and was the reason he moved to Margate.
He admits he’s never looked back and even two or three hours in London now has him hankering to get back to the coast.
“I was nervous at first about moving here because I had been previously and I always liked places like Botany Bay… I thought it was so beautiful. But my experience of going to Margate town was that everything was boarded up and there wasn’t anywhere to even eat.
“What’s nice now is that Turner Contemporary has inspired people to be creative but in many different ways, so the town is not just about art.”
He lists numerous restaurants – Angela’s, New Street Bistro, KG Winters – and shops (Werkhaus, Madam Popoff Vintage, Margate Gift Shop) among the things he loves about the town.
He also sings the praises of Fort’s Café, Curve Coffee Roasters and Northdown Brewery.
Then there’s the musicians, he says, including Self Esteem and Denai Moore, who he only found out lived in Margate after he’d become a fan of both.
“For me, moving to Margate has been transformative because of this idea of community,” he explains. “There are all different types of people and we all get on really well and it’s such a like-minded place.
“When you’re a visitor and you come into that, you feel that positivity. There’s a really nice vibe.”
He firmly puts this shift in Margate’s fortunes on the shoulders of Turner Contemporary, which opened its doors in 2011.
“Before it opened, there was a lot of resistance, though. It wasn’t because people didn’t like museums, it’s because people didn’t really understand what it all meant.
“I think once Victoria Pomery [founding director] was able to talk to people in the community and was able to explain what it could bring to the town, then they were really supportive. The viewing figures they get are insane.
“Even with our gallery moving into the town, we’ve ended up doing a lot of work with local charities, raising a lot of money that wouldn’t have been there otherwise.
“Companies aren’t always evil and even these big institutions, they’re not terrible spaces – they’re there to have education programmes, do outreach with children, and that changes futures.
“Where artists and museums go, industry follows. Margate is a real success story.”
INSTA: @robertdiament & @carlfreedmangallery
